Christmas tree farming: Agronomist visits farm to help set plan, use the people there to help.

So i’m just gonna tell you right now uh First of all sorry for the video quality Uh i wasn’t planning on recording that But when she came out and i Uh this is the first time i’ve met Vanessa personally Uh she’s helped us out over the phone That she just got the job at valley egg Once i realized how much knowledge and Information she was going to have I decided to record it so the quality i Did Of recording i just had my phone in my Hand at the time may not be the best i Know the wind was blowing But i’m just going to play this through She Vanessa is you know besides the Agronomist of valley egg She’s college trained she has the ed The book knowledge but she’s also worked In Nurseries before so she has a lot of Hands-on knowledge of trees so she’s Going to talk about Pest control insect mite weed control Fertilization and we just had a good Visit for over an hour Um very knowledgeable if you’re a Christmas tree farmer I think it’ll be worth sitting down and Listening to this if you’re not a Christmas tree farmer Uh you might might get a little bit

Bored but uh Vanessa did a great job Okay another lesson on being a christmas Tree farmer or any type of farmer take Advantage of the people that are there And willing to help you out uh this is Vanessa with vanello Excuse me valley egg who we uh work with And uh she’s an agronomist is that Correct so Uh she came out to the farm today to Help us look at Uh what we got going on and how she Could help us so Just say hello and what what is it you Do exactly hello like you said my name’s Vanessa What i do as an agronomist is recommend Products fertilizer crop protection Products that help farmers and growers Successfully grow a crop Yield i also come out and help scout Potential disease issues insect problems And things that might become a problem Within somebody’s crop so i can help Them prevent And or overcome some of those issues i Help people Make recommendations based on Fertilizers that way they know how much To apply for what their crop needs are So that way they can have a successful Crop and yield that essentially wraps up What i do

As well as many other tasks but crop Protection and fertilizer Pretty much recommending advising and Being a crop advisor For those types of products excellent Thank you thank you I’m not surprised to hear that your Plugs did better Than the bare root because they can just Retain more moisture around the Root system yeah you know they just Where because There’s media in there you know it’s not Just dirt that you have in the soil but There’s media that Is surrounding that plug that’s been Designed to you know peat moss So that’s that’s why you probably had Better survival on those well And i’ve i my that’s interesting you say That i hadn’t thought about the media But my thing is you know Noble roots especially are very Sensitive and you You pull them out of the ground and then You Cut off half of the roots and you know On the two o’s or three Uh two ones like and so you cut them Down to eight or ten inches And so half of the roots are gone and They they kind of get root shock and so You do that whereas the plugs are Smaller trees don’t need as much

You don’t damage the roots you just put Them down there possibly Um that’s very stock type dependent And hard to say unless i saw them come Out of the ground Because sometimes roots in the plugs Even get so long that they still have to Trim them back So really potentially yes there’s a Theory there that maybe if you Are doing a plug the roots are a little More protected and inside that plug And like you said the bare root they do Go through more root shock i would say More so in the lifting process But they are dormant when that happens So you know how much of that plays a Factor yeah they’re dormant but so i Actually I have a friend that came and spoke at My in my horticulture Class that does lewis river Reforestation okay and so then he let me Come out and do a video when they’re Lifting them And when they’re lifting them those some Of those roots are Two feet long and then they take them in And they they cut them down to ten Inches or eight inches And that’s just one when we lift them Out of the ground and then step two they Go back and they get pruned again I mean there’s there’s definitely some

There’s definitely some shock that They’re going through but I do put up a good defense for the fact That by the time that happens Not only are they dormant but they’ve Been beat up so much before that They’ve been undercut they’ve been Wrenched they’ve been sprayed They’ve been plot you know there’s so Much that has already happened to that Tree that If they’ve made it to the harvest Process i’d say sometimes that’s the Least of that trees worries Especially if it’s like a two-year-old But no that’s a good All-around point i think what the what Might tip the tip to scale As to why your plugs survive versus your Barrow is because they have that Protected media Around that root system like you said And it didn’t get disturbed When it was harvested versus the bare Root which was shook of all of its dirt All the dirt got shook off in that Process and then yes it did get a tram Which maybe the plugs did i don’t know You know i wasn’t there standing Watching but That makes a difference it does okay so This is something i was going to talk to Barry about and we didn’t have a chance To yet

You know you do the research and trees Are never 100 dormant And uh you know i was looking at the Root growth charts And you know they’re growing roots from November december and whatnot If you know nobody will give us bare Root until the spring because that’s When they can Dig them up but the plugs they just pull Out of canisters If we could convince them to give us Plugs in november And plant them do you think we’d get Even a higher percentage Of survival because Now they’re in there they’re going to Get reined in the soil is going to be Tight around Them tighter than even when we pack it In good they are going to grow a little Bit of root Not a lot but a little bit of root in January and february before all this Other stuff whereas when we Throw them in the ground in march and April When they they dig us up the bare root You know They don’t have that i’m not sure how Much benefit you would have By planting in november versus say December or january when they normally Start lifting

The one thing i would say is You’re gonna get see this is where it’s Gonna be Weather dependent too because they frost Protect pretty consistently Through october and i think the rule of Thumb is by about thanksgiving Early december depending on the chill Hours is when they stop cross protecting So say you did plant november 1 and Wanted seedlings Out of the plugs and they were say those Were plugs that were not inside and they Were being Frost protected outside you might risk Potentially some frost damage by Planting Out plant in november because there’s a Potential that the nursery they were Protecting it with frost protection And you get that couple more weeks of Coverage and chill hours and dormancy Before it comes out here So there could be depending on stock Type depending on the nursery By waiting till december you just might Get a little bit more dormancy and Protection and shutdown That you wouldn’t get if you planted in November and that’s probably why they Don’t Start lifting till say december one and That’s usually how we decided even at The bare

Facility how to lift is chill hours Right you know once we hit x chill hours We’ll go So that’s probably how they decided the Plugs too is at a certain point Chill hours logistics when people want To take their plugs that’s probably why December is when they start for most Greenhouses So yeah so maybe maybe I you know i haven’t seen it done Because i i think that they’re just Programmed to not start till december Because that’s when the majority Customers want to take Seedlings and that’s when the majority Of them been shut down they’ve had Enough chill hours so Right yeah i’m aware of the well here 400 hours yeah And whatnot of under 40 degrees but Then the problem is it gets so wet Like we’ve been waiting for trees Waiting for trees and like it’s not dry Enough to dig it’s not dry enough to dig I’m like And then when it finally is by the time You get your seedlings it’s raining Again right Yeah yeah so anyway and then you’re Fighting with everybody else who wants Their seedlings at the same time Yeah exactly yes yeah Been there done that yeah okay but yeah

So It would be interesting to trial yeah See if they’re shut down enough if they Have their 400 chill out yeah well it’s It’s at least talking to bruce at lewis River reforestation he was Mentioning it he wasn’t worried about The tree dying or hurting so much but The tips of the leader the frost hurt so The most they want the straight tree So but if the tree if we get a higher Percentage of trees living And we have to start up a new wait for a New leader At one year old i don’t Definitely yeah yeah it’s like is that Is that that big of a loss Yeah if more trees survive and then oh The bud You know the terminal bud died out So it sends up a new one well that That’s all just gonna be handled down There anyway Right well and some of that with the Nurseries um I i would think if i was in a Nurseryman’s shoes like i was in the Past Some of the things that would run Through my mind is I’m am i logistically ready you know my Workforce is laid off in november You know i have a seasonal workforce i Started on december 1 and i know i’m

Going full production and we’re packing So there might be a logistical challenge On the nursery side say if someone was Interested in packing 10 000 seedlings November 5th they’re going My crew’s not here so that’s also Something labor’s something else to kind Of think about there and then Something else that would come to mind At me if i had folks that wanted to take Seedlings in november If i can’t frost protect them and Continue to protect them as much as I know okay this is a good product for Sure for sure it’s hard to let your Product go out the door Now if you have a great relationship With your nurse you’re obviously no Issue but let it go out the door You would want to make sure it’s a Really trusted customer because Otherwise what might happen is Next thing you know they got damaged in November But the grower you know say they didn’t Immediately notice frost damage Especially can take a while to show up And then next thing you know your name’s On the street and people are going Oh yeah you know i bought these 300 Nurseries from so-and-so nursery And some just didn’t go right with them Well now your name’s out there with that Little tagline

Right what happened with these seedlings And people go huh you know i had Something happen with that i wonder you Know It’s just kind of a product integrity Too At the same time where it’s like you Know rather not go there and not have to Have that discussion or have that Symptom appear later and then we’re Wondering what’s going on So just other reasons why maybe but hey It’s one of those talk to your nurseries And maybe they want to set up a trial With you And they too might just be as interested So you never know Okay yeah but yeah not surprised about The plugs doing better I’ve heard that with drought tolerance And everything that doesn’t Surprise me too much but as far as Yes okay so kind of south southwest Facing that’s where you got the most Damage Yep the southwest the afternoon sun and Just came over and it just cooked yeah Yes there’s some trees that you could Just stand on the north east side and go Ah good looking tree you stepped to the Other side and it’s just like whoa That didn’t do so well yeah especially Seedlings and there’s Um over the past couple weeks it’s been

A postmortem Talking to customers how you doing Because there’s only so much you can do To prepare for something like that i Mean it was record temperatures so On our end the last thing we’re going to Do is try and sell some sort of silver Bullet That’s just not what we do yeah it’s Like yes is there some protective Products there are Um is there nutrition foliar nutrition Programs you could do to help like with Interior needle loss and Damage is their antioxidant products yes Yes yes but when the heat gets that hot I even kind of i step back and i go They’re they’re supposed to help with Drought conditions these are products That’s supposed to help that tree Combat stresses like that but with 106 110 and We know it hasn’t been tested in that Because you do field trials to determine The efficacy of a product We haven’t had temperatures like that I could believe there’s 116 here 116. You know you know that’s just tested in Like the 90s maybe Yeah high 80s we’re not 100 well the Interesting thing is you know i have Friends going down to las vegas here Soon and they’re like las vegas is Getting a record

High at 117. that’s like that’s one Degree warmer than my tree farm here in Washington It’s like wait that’s their record yeah How could it possibly be and so no Wonder our trees didn’t Stand a chance so you do have products That i mean obviously not for 116 Degrees That was 11 degrees warmer than i ever Remember being on the since we’ve had a Farm You know usually you break a record by One or two but that was 11 degrees See that’s and that’s where it’s like The last thing i want to do is go out And say oh i got this product regimen You could do and No you know definitely not going to do That because when you get temperatures Like that Uh i i I would there’s research being done you Know i’ve been talking to the product Reps and everything about What have these products been tested too But just out the gate i just know That just because the products are there Doesn’t mean that they’re going to 100 Just guarantee oh yeah just spray this On and you’re good to go because Maybe next year it’s 118 you know that’s Where it’s like i’m cautious but One thing people have done with the

Droughty dry summers that we’re having With just Overall the lack of rain we’re not Getting that you know break like Sometimes we have although pacific Northwest has always had dry summers we Know that Right july and august we usually drive a Day we’re used to dry but It’s been a little drier um it’s been a Little warmer it’s just that extra Little tip that has been struggling with The trees People do a regimen of And this is just by trade that we’ve Seen a lot of calcium and magnesium Foliar products In the spring late winter and into the Spring Um and some people say put them on right Before you’re gonna get say a couple Days to a week before you’re gonna get A spike in the heat so especially in may This is where we see this a lot That tree is coming out of dormancy it’s Going into its girth and it is Breaking bud and it is you know tons of Succulent growth on it i mean brand new Growth just Really really weak growth that could get Burned really easily So they’ll see you know okay my trees Out there has a bunch of new growth on It

And i’m looking at my 10 day and i see The 90s are coming and we’ve been in the High 60s and low 70s i’m gonna get this Spray on And that can help with some of that Is that a liquid or a powder liquid yeah It’s a foliar liquid that you would Apply to the trees That can help with some of that research That i’ve actually read Helps more so doing that same thing like A late winter Application of like a calcium or a Magnesium chelated material With interior needle loss i don’t know If you’ve seen much of that i know me And my husband we don’t have christmas Trees but we have forestry dug first And after that last heat wave we had a Canker problem already knew about So every now and then i’d see a little Flagging we’d go snip it out whatever But after this heat wave we have lots of Interior needle loss and i mean it shows Up You know i it’s like that was from the Heat you could tell because you come out There You get a green tree and you look into There and it’s just everything aside From last year’s growth you know you got Last year’s growth and this year’s Growth Inside just yellow and we know that

Those are just going to cast So that’s a scenario where i believe Maybe a foliar application May have curved a little bit of that may Have helped us out He said record breaking temperatures Though so maybe That’s just kind of my caveat there as Well it’s been proven help in 80s and 90s That may have her you know carbs in that Another method you can do Is there’s products on the market that Are calcium based so some of them are Calcium carbonate some are calcium Carbonate calcium acetate together Um those are marketed as almost like Think sunscreen like it’s A high rate two to four gallon and you Gotta get good coverage And it’s just to kind of help prevent Some of the sun Rays and reflections and you know actual Ultraviolet light From hitting the needle directly it’s Just coating that tree needle And if i don’t know if you’ve used a Lime product that’s calcium carbonate Very similar stuff So there’s been products that are fully Coat the tree Um my thoughts on those just because Some of these products are new to me You do have to go to a high rate you

Have to get really good coverage Um if you get rain and consistent amount Before that heat comes Or you know if you say oh we’ll just Apply this once or twice in the summer You definitely got to target better than That you know you got to know that Heat’s coming and target it You know within a week of that heat Because the dew The moisture it’s going to it’s going to Bring it off the tree just like your Sunscreen would when you go swimming you Know it’s going to It’s going to wear off so that’s one of Those things with that that’s kind of Tough Um but it’s a physical barrier um but Then the calcium also has modes of Action to help That treatment so what kind of cost are We talking per acre So the quote that i have for some of Those Physical the physical barrier one we Just talked about those calcium products That’d be about like 35 a gallon So and if you think you got to go two to Four gallons per acre really coat that Tree So that’s about 35 a gallon some of the Foliar products it would really depend On your rate if you want to do a calcium And mag together how many applications

That’s one I would need to look up and do some math On and then the last one Is actually takes a completely different Approach and it’s definitely more about The internal functions of the tree we’re Not talking barriers and Nutrition but it’s a kelp product which There’s a lot of kelp products on the Market i’m not sure if you’re familiar With them But with the kelp products the the idea Behind it is They’ve taken material genetics what Have it that’s patented and they don’t Market it too much as to how they derive This but From the kelp that they get The idea is kelp sits out in the sun on A rock For 12 days during the heat of the day And then the The tide comes up and then it’s covered Under really cold temperatures Under water so you’re drowning it you’re You know you’re You’re droughting it you’re you’re Drying it out you’re you’re wetting it Back down And it survives this cycle of constant Stress So there’s antioxidants as well as Nutrition in that kelp that they derived And then they’ve turned it into

Plant-based materials and there’s Several companies that market kelp Products As a stress reduction agent essentially By spraying it on the tree it’s going to Benefit from some of those same Antioxidants that Help basically deal with that type of Stress You know really cold temperatures really Droughty temperatures really Salty you know soil different things That that might because The kelp experiences all that so Somebody else much smarter than i Figured out how to go That has something that allows it to Survive that they were able to derive And use for a plant product so those are Kind of three avenues that People might approach and that’s where It comes down to That’s my question too and it’d be Interesting to see some products get out There The calcium and the mag applications During high peak temperatures very Common produce has been doing it for a Long time The calcium physical barrier product is Something that’s been very popular for Production You know apples cherries what not um and Then the

The product that we have is called Guarantee from the seek help That’s something that people have used Intermittently in all kinds of crop Production industries So it would depend on what kind of Approach you want to take i don’t think Just using one is necessarily the way to Go if i were to approach it i would say I would want to trial The kelp guarantee product throughout The spring because that’s not one you Want to apply right before like say the Physical barrier You want that tree to actually have Those antioxidants and be able to Basically build up a defense And a stress response so it’s something You’re going to spray within your Production regimen And then the foliar application Nutritional that’s something as well you Kind of include in in preparation say a Week or two before knowing you’re going To get that heat And then the physical barrier is kind of Your we know something bad’s coming We want to get the song to just Physically protect the tray so Yeah so as far as chemically how safe Are you You can see we sprayed right down the Rows to kill And then we left here and we’ve yeah

Barry’s slacking on mowing They’re just kidding but i mean he’s Done a lot of mowing but You know we usually keep this mode down But because we We’re not huge fans of a ton of Chemicals like so are these Kind of an oil so those three products The nice thing about that calcium Carbonate product and i’d have to look At the labels themselves i’m not sure if They’re organic certified but One of those products is just calcium Carbonate that’s all it is Uh and calcium carbonate is the same as Lime and that’s an organic product or You know tums it’s all the same The same calcium carbonate used in your Concrete it’s it’s just limestone So that you know makes me lean to yeah That’s probably pretty darn safe Yeah i had like i said i have to look And see if they have any trade patent or Anything In that label but i immediately i’m Going yeah that’s a pretty safe one uh That guarantee kelp uh i’d have to check And see if that’s armory too but that’s Also a very safe chemical Um and then your your foliar nutrition Also very safe so none of these really Include any synthetic chemicals They sounded like they were they’re just Patented formulations so sometimes

There’s a There is a um non-active ingredients in There You know inert that has a reason why you Don’t want it on your skin or you don’t Want to breathe it you know and so You’d have to really break down those Labels to know for sure what the dangers Are of it but Just based on what’s in all those we’re Not talking Paraquat here you know we’re way on the Other end of the scale as far as safety So okay not to go too deep into it but It brings up an interesting question for Me so um You know when i took the applicator’s License test you know they talk about Protecting yourself and all this other Stuff which i agree with And now i’m you know we use a fair Amount of chemicals We’re trying to do less and less Then my my father-in-law got parkinson’s And uh i kept telling my wife for years I said You know he’s farmed a thousand acres For years and back in a generation where They didn’t worry about Chemicals yeah and i said i there’s a Very good chance That the camera and she was like no no No and now you’re starting to see You know commercials on tv did you spray

Around up or this and that Are you suffering from class action uh You know Now we’ve got other people saying that They could do it so i you know i’m Like i don’t even let my family or Myself spray roundup at home without A paint respirator on long sleeve even If we’re just doing a little bit you Know What do you think thought on that well i Mean right out the gate any of the Products that we would sell For us out of our facility Just number one we follow the label you Know the the label Has been and the active ingredient has Been backed by the epa with a really High safety factor So when they go through um All the testing for a specific active or Product to actually make it to market They will find out what the lethal dose Is Here and they’ll go all right for just So we know Your pets your infants your you Your everything is is safe we’re going To go Anything 20 times less than that we’re Going to consider An acceptable dose right right from from Lethality so They do a really good job on all the

Products to make sure that It’s when it’s getting marketed anything That you’re wearing As part of that but you know say it says Wear gloves a respirator You’re following the ppe on the label When you’re spraying and you’re Following the reis and everything that’s Required in order to keep everybody safe Then i personally doesn’t concern me you Know i’m going great You’re following the law that’s been Tested follow the labeling Make sure you’re not entering that area Once you’ve sprayed Understand how it moves in the soil Understand how it can move in the air And that’s kind of where we come in to Kind of help people Can you go spray dicamba on an 80 degree Day Well you could could you do some damage Yes and we would never recommend that And that’s kind of where we come in and Actually a lot of our job is to kind of Help advise based on safety And drift and off target damage because The label will say well don’t spray when It’s too hot then people are going what Does that mean Don’t experience two what does that mean So then we kind of kind of can help Based on what’s going on in the weather Make sure there’s no physical toxicity

Either So anyway i’m getting off on a little Bit of a tangent as far as safety goes Aside from just following the label and Exactly what that label says to do per The epa Um just reading the research you know The News you know civil and criminal court Two different things as we know Um that can be you know very revealing Based on well you Someone sprayed a chemical and they Don’t find it criminally criminally Liable but they were civil You know liable on a civil basis why was That You know just reading through some of That and actually reading the research Because It’s not uncommon as well for a chemical To get a bad name because There was one article Versus a hundred and it had maybe Some correlation but not even causation And the next thing you know it’s in the Media people take off with it right Also people you know and this is my Personal not valid talking When people go to court because they had A disease or symptom or something bad Happened How do we know that those people Follow the label to the tea every single

Time We distort it we just don’t there’s so Much i i go You know what really happened you never Know you never know but And some people get those diseases that Never are around chemicals too Yeah there’s like every day there’s some Stuff we’re finding on oh you know that Turns out that over the counter drug oh We’re starting to find links of this or That Uh plastics or you know our air is not As clean as it used to be it’s just like What causes all these things we just It’s hard to target but i don’t blame Anybody for saying hey i just want to Reduce Chemical usage usually that just means You’re going to have more labor You know or maybe more fuel use you know And it’s in exchange you know i i don’t Want to apply As much glyphosate but that means i’m Going to have to mow every other week Okay so you’re gonna have to use Diesel fuel and you’re gonna have to Emit that into there what kind of Trade-offs are you willing to accept and What works for you you know where Depending on how you approach uh do you Have labor available for some people It’s like well i have to spray because i Can’t get enough labor to just run my

Words All day so just depends on the situation But yeah for people who are looking for Safer options they’re growing More and more every day and i wouldn’t Say necessarily safer but Just getting away from the chemical use Um just so They don’t have to worry about if they Got a spray on hot day or cool day and They don’t have to worry about the ppa You know Things that are the safer methods you Know they’re out there But even sometimes the organic options You know spraying like a high Concentration of peroxide or vinegar Well i can definitely burn the crap That stuff can be very caustic so Everything’s a trade-off right you know Let’s figure it out but they’re out There there’s options out there okay Good So thanks for coming out here yeah what What were you what you were you Expecting to look at talk about or just Just come out and because i wrote up a Program for different Uh fungicide herbicide um different Programs It’s nice to come on site and see what How people do things and capabilities And what they like to do right so Over the phone we’ll say well we we

Spray like this Or we like to mow this much but then Even me just coming down i can see okay They like to spray herbicide strips and Mow like you could tell When you’re coming out here okay and Then this would start a conversation of What do you like to spray In here what time of year what have you Had a problem coming through And that’s where i start asking Questions like that because Someone will say i’ll come out over the Phone i’ll ask How is that herbicide strip working for You and they’ll say well it’s going Pretty good but i have some weeds coming Up well what kind of weights are there Oh i think they’re dandelions and that’s When i come and i go okay this this this What have you been spraying x or i Haven’t well i actually need to spray This to get that And this together to prevent this and Then it just starts a conversation Subway whatever you’re using or decide To Go with it’s going to work to its best Of its ability So much easier to just come see what’s Going on then over the phone and kind of Making assumptions I just make a trip down and see what’s Up well we appreciate you coming out

And i’ve already enjoyed the Conversation what we’ve had already but So yeah this is this would be our ideal Thing actually there’s a lot of trees on The other side that are just circles Around the trees This i don’t think it’s a true dandelion But this When we were spraying west star uh can We even get west star anymore anymore Okay not from us yeah we we can’t get it Anymore Uh when we were spraying west star it Seemed like we were killing everything And then we had a sea Of yellow yes um just asters coming up No fox it’s fox here boxier yeah Uh cats here that’s what yeah cats here Yes the whole thing was a sea of yellow That was that was after All that money we put into you know Trying to You know yes sterilize the ground we Were going to do the whole bare dirt And trees thing and that that didn’t Work Excuse me that’s tough because you talk About herbicides and christmas trees There’s no perfect silver bolt that’s Just gonna sterilize everything Something and if it’s out there we’ll Find a way because maybe it wasn’t there Before But now that it’s nice and clean it has

Its opportunity finally right before it Was the grass and it was out competing Or whatever it was that was coming Through and You know i just can’t keep this clean I’ll use this and it’ll kill it Something else is going to go yep it’s The one two three or four weeds That has a mechanism to divert around That herbicide And then that will be your problem you Know there’s never a so you know That’s just you know one of the last Thing i should do is like you know As working for a chemical company is to Say come out and No you know no herbicides perfect Bullets but everybody You know it would agronomically would Make sense to say come out I can do a good job helping you keep it Really clean on a good spray regimen and Try and target the different weeds you Know if this one didn’t work maybe we Need to tape mix it with something else And then that will keep it clean But it’s very rare that i want just one Herbicide sprayed once a year Walk away it’s just not realistic Especially the weather the rain’s gonna Wear it down You know eventually and then if you Really did have something so strong And broad spectrum that you could just

Spray on once a year Walk away and it’s clean how is that Working and that’s what we’re getting Really good at with our chemistries is Chemistries that target what you have on Site Working and working residually for a Long time without the residual being Environmentally hazardous right Old-school chemicals like i said like The paraquad Oh it worked great on xyz what is it Doing in the environment is it breaking Down the soil Is it you know runoff what what not you Know you just gotta wonder What else if it doesn’t work is it too Good to be true Fumigants they’re broad spectrum you Know Use those broad spectrum fumigates and You mix them together Oh yeah you’ll kill everything but it’ll Come back with a vengeance you know You kill it all and when it flares back Up it’s coming back strong You know or whatever it doesn’t make it Through that’s strong and it’s going to Repopulate you know That’s what happened to us yeah yeah i’m Pretty confident that’s what happened to Us Yeah yeah we because we we tried it for Two seasons

Paid the good money with the weather This was west star yep And how defeating wasn’t it it’s just Crazy defeating because they kept it Clean for a while didn’t it you’re going A short a short while yeah that was a Short while because it seems like the Cat’s here um it would wither And then boom come back yeah like no Competition it went through a weight Training session It was it was tired and it got strong Yeah you had all the water it had all The sunlight No competition and now like you said Well now i got this one species that Is being unkept like it was before Because it wasn’t competing with You know mix of weeds and vetch and you Know Queen anne’s lace and carrot you know It’s yeah It’s nature right but yeah i mean There’s things You know i don’t know if there’s a Christmas tree label for it and that’s Another thing that’s a challenge Sure there’s chemicals out there and There’s a lot of them that could do a Lot of cool things But is it labeled in washington is it Labeled for christmas tree use There’s cool chemicals out there right Now like oh that would work great on

That but it’s not legal to spray Christmas trees so we’re not going to Spread You know it’s and so and there’s reasons For that and some of them are for what We just talked about Residual efficacy issues if it’s a Chemical that needs to be used in corn Wheat Cotton we don’t need to be using it Everything else and wear that chemistry Out when We’re using it in other areas save it For Different crops for different things That way it creates diversity in what We’re using and Not everybody’s just using one thing Otherwise you just ruin it for everybody Faster because it’s Residual build up faster yeah so there’s A method to that But yeah it says say creating herbicide Strips just making sure that’s the Biggest Thing that when you come out look at Christmas trees it’s just Good weed control is so key as you know So our so our issue We’ll spray this this was browned up Actually i had a little bit of west star Left in here So yeah i had i found it in my shop oh No wonder it hasn’t come back because

A little bit of residual everywhere i Sprayed Round up the the secondary plants Queening queen anne’s lace Daisy cat’s ear came right in I mean it’s just like and then you can’t Spray around the new growth Yeah unless there’s something we can see That’s the other thing that’s tough with Trees We can’t spray around the second the Second growth so it’s like I wanted to keep it clean but i’ve mowed That i’ve mowed that Probably a dozen times i’ve mowed that Three times And i can keep this the strips down in Between But it frustrates the bajibes out of me Because all that spraying and work we Did There’s still weeds that are this tall And it’s the secondary stuff that we Can’t kill When did you spray these strips here Well he did if he put west star see this That was probably goodness probably I did it over spring break so it’s Probably the first week of april I mean so far no that’s i didn’t know You did westar And well Yeah because you’re just getting that First burn down yeah you know and then

Give it a couple weeks and if there’s Other seeds in the seed bank They’re going to come up with those Boots that you burn down or Um i mean it’s doing a pretty good job Oh that’s doing Great if we had that happen see i Haven’t even been in here to mow but If we had that happen and i mowed which It would look it would look clean But like i said everything on that side Of the farm and everything down that Direction Herbicide strips are dirty they’re dirty Yeah seriously dirty yeah And i don’t you know what do you do with What do you do well then it comes back To the like you said is it I’m gonna apply pre-emergent is it worth My money i’m gonna have to come back With my time and labor My mower to just fix this you know That’s where it’s just Really put pencil to paper and figuring Out if it’s worth your money or not Was it was the west star worth the three Months of control i got at the rate i Used do i need to use a higher rate to Get that one extra month just so i can Capture those last few Weed seeds before july and then it dries Out and then boom i’m good till Till harvest season right so it’s that Constant given trade

How much of chemical can i apply how High of a rate can i go Without getting it on my trees or say Poisoning the roots or Doing any damage but then getting a Really good pull for as long as i need It to until the We’re dry enough that i just the weeds Aren’t going to come up Right about now you know whatever comes Up it’s just not going to be that Vigorous and you’re like i’m not worried About it you know Dandelions are not growing three feet You know you know yeah your cat’s here And stuff you’re passing a germination Face where it’s just not wet enough for That stuff to be coming up So and then it becomes a fall thing yeah With star I think the longest pre-emergent Available that we would have would be A flumioxazin like a sureguard Not cheap though i want to say you’re up There like 100 bucks an acre So but that not if we’re doing strips i Mean If you’re spraying herbicide strips it Would probably be 50 bucks way Bigger area exactly so um That’s a whole other story it’s like Well actually i’m mowing half of it And i’m spraying but that chemistry Sprayed when you still got bare dirt

Before the trees are awake that’s one of Them you know you want to get it on the Dirt Yeah and off the pretty much have trees Before they start waking up yeah Because if you were to get that spray on New growth or trees that are waking up They’re not dormant You could do some damage so then it Starts that whole conversation about Well How have a rate can i go in at what time And that’s where we help That’s where we come in with the timing Yeah because we see enough trees we Could say hey trees are still hardy till This point If you spray something like this at this Rate you’re good to go once we start to Warm up and we start seeing Things wake up or we get to a point Where we’re watching the growing Greediest and we know that they’re Probably waking up underground We’ll start advising against it you know Just to and we put a safety factor there To make sure that everything So you know we’ve always been careful Over our little trees to not go over the Top but you know some people spray right Over the top of their trees Hey and there’s labels out there that Allow it yeah well that allows it but Is it really that safe well timing has a

Lot to do with that And you’ll see if someone goes out there And they push that timing a little bit And I went out to a grower and they sprayed Um A pre-emergent and glyphosate in august And april and i went You know they were having some yellowing And some sickness and I’ve listened there could be other Things going on but i know right out the Gate Those trees were not shut down enough in August and in april they were probably Waking up so You bump that back to january february October november i wouldn’t have gone to That first I might maybe there’s some residual Going on there Um it was an on label application as far As what chemicals he used and they did Have over the top labels But i’d almost guarantee that if you Read especially in that pre-emergent It probably said make sure the trees are Dormant so technically By going out there when the trees Weren’t dormant i mean you could debate That it was off label More so that’s the label telling you Don’t do that or you’re gonna have Damage and now he’s living with the

Damage so Right you know was it illegal i don’t Think an inspector is going to come out Here and go Oh you didn’t sprain their door me now Your trees he didn’t cause any Environmental damage but He didn’t hurt his trees so economically Just didn’t make sense to do That so that’s kind of my thought now Yeah i think you pushed your envelope a Little too much i think those trees Weren’t asleep yet But like you said the trees never truly Truly 100 go dormant they’re basically Just hibernating Right they’re still growing over winter They put on root mass They put on caliper you know so they’re Doing stuff Uh what you could spray and how much and At what time of the year is you gotta be Careful for sure Yeah so what’s your Just initial recommendation you’re like Seeing what we wanted to Since you’re gonna mow i’m going great i Don’t got to worry about this strip Especially if you like to keep it green A green strip in between then i just say Hey mow that that’s great Um if you’re not spraying over the top Awesome because that allows you to come In

And do a little spot spray if you wanted If you wanted to come in and just take Care of some of these aster type weeds i Would go with like a really safe 248 it’s called free lux it’s a choline Inversion So you have esters Amines and you have cholines the esters Work really well um but they’re the most Likely to volatilize and go and burn That tree if you spray over here it’s Gonna Most likely to move the cholines are the Safest as far as they’re least likely to Do that The added benefit that is and i’ve Always seen it this way too is You’re saving money because if i spray An ester Here i wanted to stay there where i Wanted to kill the weed if it’s gassing Off over there that’s not killing what i Wanted it To choline if it’s stained where it Should i’m going great because it’s Working where i want it to be working so It’s a dual benefit there i mean you’re Spraying it on the target species not on The off-target organism Staying where it should so you get the Safety factor you get the factor of Not killing what you’re trying to grow That’s always great and then it’s Staying where it should working in the

Plant that you wanted to kill So that would be an easy spot spray what Time of year For these guys as long as they’re Actively growing so What about but when you have fresh and You know If we hit this little bit right so That’s more Um with spray safety During this time of year you’re taking a Risk there yeah 100 Yeah so that’s we defer to grower on is It cool Is the wind low and i mean not no wind Because then you have that inversion Problem that you learn about in those Pesticide classes If there’s no wind at all and i’m Spraying at six in the morning You might not actually be spraying at The ground there might be kind of you’re Standing in an inversion it’s kind of Just floating Right here so you think that you spray It there but it’s actually kind of Gassing around here and then as it warms Up It moves so just a little bit of wind Cool weather low humidity going out when The trees are hardened is definitely Preferential Spraying any time that the trees have New growth on them you’re always taking

A risk High course you know coarse nozzle you Know anytime you can backpack spray and Spray right there You’re greatly reducing your wrist Versus coming with the boom sprayer Obviously You know i sprayed there the chances of It gassing off versus boobs where you Greatly reduce the chance of my movement Somewhere where it’s not adding a Sticker Adding a drift reduction using something Like a choline version there’s a lot you Can do where if you need to come Out in season and do a little spot spray That can greatly reduce So what are some choline products that We recognize and what are some of ester So choline would be like your free lex That’s a 240 okay or bass land so Garland have you ever used garland try Computer products Uh if you’re familiar with crossbow yeah Is in that So the tri-compare part of that is Vastland garland They all share that same active Ingredient vast land is the choline Version Okay um ester versions they’re usually Just labeled Like 240 ester 240 lv4 So you could take that active ingredient

Of 2 4-d and Both have an a choline and an ester Product oh yeah yeah in an amine we saw All three Depending on what the use is there’s Some chemical tank mixtures where We don’t want to mix the choline with This tank make sure it doesn’t work Right or The choline isn’t compatible or the Ester isn’t compatible so we might Choose a different acid type formulation In order to make the tank mix compatible With each other So and maybe burn down depending on the Weed Like the cuticle surface ester might Work better it’ll do a better job Penetrating and getting in there burning It versus say Choline but the cooling has a safety Factor so there’s a lot where we might Pivot on products and that’s something Else we do is hey i need to 4d if Someone came in today and i said do you Have to have it What’s going on what are you spraying it In to make sure it’s a legal application If it was like this exact situation i Would go through that whole thing Are you hand spraying make sure you stay Away from the trees make sure it’s a Cool day Not too windy you know just give them

All the information they need so that Way hopefully if they’re going to go out And do a little spot spray They’re not likely to damage those There’s always that factor i cannot Guarantee it but I do have to just try and give as much Knowledge as i can to who’s spraying it To just You know do the best for them this time Of year spraying is always Herbicide spray during active growing Anything is always Risky with and we’re specifically Talking christmas trees because So many of those products could work on The tree there’s not a lot of over the Top Not in dormancy type sprays or even near The tree when they’re not dormancy that Are Is out there our market’s so specific to Like the northwest you know They’re busy creating labels for cotton And corn you know So yeah you’re limited for sure Okay but yeah i mean that’s that would Be my thought If you had um even just a backpack With some sticker in it a little bit of Drift reduction agent Get really close you know Spray on a good day and use a choline Version of say like a 240 you could come

In and you could clean these guys up If you wanted to that would be the Safest possible thing i could think of This time of year find a cool week too It’s not just the day you spray it’s the Days following You could spray today and if you get 80 Degree heat in a day two three days away 85 90 it could still lift really Yeah yeah so we’re saying we’ll we’ll Tell people if you want to be really Safe because we like i said we’re always On the The safe and safest end of things the Last thing we want to do is have you buy Something and it Burn your crop not what we’re trying to Do You want to spray on a monday and you Have all the right conditions what about Tuesday and wednesday thursday friday We want to know about the following days Too monday’s good and we’re supposed to Spike tomorrow we’re going Not a good idea you know it’s just Because it works now it could still lift We’re definitely on the far safety Factor and where we’re making sure it’s Absolutely not going to burn your crop So yeah yeah if you’ve got cool weather Coming Um sometimes you know in the summer we Do Right we’re so odd here in the northwest

Just because it’s dry or whatnot Um that i and the reason why i’d go that Route too is because it’s an affordable Spray Um in the summer another factor to Consider is My trees are growing i don’t want to Burn them i don’t have the greatest best Temperature for this But also is the weed You know that’s what you were asking is A good time to spray is that as long as It’s actively growing and it’s not Really hardened off or anything sure Like these are small and they’re You know that can still tell they’re Kind of succulent that’ll take a spray But yeah if you come out here and Something’s seeding out And it’s july and it’s droughty It has to metabolize that herbicide you Know what i’m saying like It has to it has to be actively growing And actually take it in otherwise you’re Just spraying it on a cuticle surface You know are you going to penetrate and Actually kill that plant It might be shutting down already so if You’re coming off a really hot week well Maybe Wait a week and see if that hot week did What you needed it to on shutting that Plant down maybe i’ll go to scene just To eye you know

You just never know but these are pretty Succulent you might have They are and they are crazy difficult Yeah it has been Interesting because i’ve tried the Crossbow product And they wither and then they laugh at You Yeah and then they bounce like this Crossbow’s one that when we talk about Crop safety that’s that’s a dangerous One yeah Two esters try compare 240 they like to Burn off Spraying those around christmas trees Like i would never recommend it now if It’s cool You know like say cool weather spring or Whatever If it’s on label that that’s grower Preference Um but yeah that’s one where it Makes us really if we actually stopped Selling crossbow because people bite off The shelf And it had a big like kind of non-crop Type label on it And using it around the farmstead and That made us really nervous because it’s Like Yeah but are you is your wheat right There you know Blackberries here spraying hot day oh it Moves

It’s one of those that’s really known It’s great chemistry it works well Not necessarily unsafe you know i don’t Want to come out it’s a product we saw In the past i don’t want to promote Anything wrong but Um it’s just more that you’ve got to be Careful with but it works fantastic There’s a reason why people use it You just gotta be careful yeah okay yeah It’s an ester formulation it’s one of Those that can move around so Yeah that’s where i like that prelux Because it’s on the other end of the Spectrum of safety So and maybe you know with stuff like This adding in like an mso or something Like an oil With like that 24d i’d have to check the Label and see what Surfactants the choline likes um That was another thing we talked about You know tank mixing and everything i’d Want to see which the fact that they Recommend but like msos this time of Year Can be really helpful when you’re Spraying in that droughty dry weather to Still kill that weed It might be that little extra spike that You need to make sure it’s penetrating That plant And surfactants for the price you pay Per acre for the jug because you only

Add them in you know maybe a pint acre Or something Yeah oh it can make that chemistry Really work well Yeah yeah let’s walk i want to show you Yeah yeah i want to show you this I didn’t realize you used westar here And that looks a lot [Music] Oh yeah i mean that was clean That was clean through may and then all Of a sudden It starts you know it’s the new growth Of the other secondary plants To come in well and that’s where it’s That’s where it’s tough people do it They’ll come back in and spray i don’t Know how they do without harming the Trees No i i don’t know a lot of people have Tree guards for the small ones they have Like you don’t think of like a Clam gun yep physically just put a Barrier around the tree and they spray Around it Exactly because you can’t glyphosate Once in the spring is not going to hold You you know Yeah it’s not so it’s been you know We’ve been doing this for Several years now and it and it uh Doesn’t hold And i won’t spray it um i learned the Hard way

I damaged too many trees trying to do Either well and say you have it this Week and you put the guard around and You spray and then you get some hot Weather and that chemistry moves around A little bit it’s right Near the tree exactly now people do it All the time you know there’s people who With very large farms who Send crews out throughout the spring and They have good luck but they got tricks Of the trade As to how they’re doing it you know There are some things that help us Spring like a glyph state without Surfactant in it So it’s less likely to step onto that Tree um Guarding the tree spraying good weather There’s Things you could do but you know that That’s hard i think as a supervisor if You’re sending people out to Make sure you’re targeting really good Spray weather so you can continue Spraying through the spring without Having any damage People do it people are really good at It um i don’t think if i had the Experience i would be going You know has to be on the weekend i work Nine to five Do i have good enough weather on a Saturday is it gonna stay cool through

Monday tuesday Uh am i not gonna hit the tree yeah and We’re just a small tree farm i mean We’re not even a big three farm i don’t Know how they do it Yeah yeah it’s pretty amazing i i think They i think most street farms use a Pre-emergent product Yes uh goal is like really really Popular that’s one that’s out there We under we sell it under a trade named Galligan oxyfluorophone That’s a really kind and one of the Reasons why is because it can be very Tree safe I would not worry about gold getting on The trees when they’re dormant Not concerned i don’t think it has an Over over-the-top label Uh it doesn’t mean that people don’t Spray it over the top so what time of Year would you put gold On uh get it on when you still bare dirt So that’s one especially almost all Pre-emergents They want soil contact so um because That’s how they’re going to work as they Get to the soil profile and it creates a Profile within the soil say You know eighth inch quarter inch inch Down into the soil depending what kind Of product you’re using depending how Good of a rain you get to penetrate it In

You spray it on you get the rain on the Bare dirt and it keeps those Seeds from germinating and coming up so That’s perfect example with Pre-emergence What’s going to come up whatever can Make it through the soil profile Whatever is under the surface you know The idea is that they can’t come through Even if they’re under It but what’s going to evade that and That’s where Mixing it with a contact herbicide is Really common Because you’re burning down what’s there And you’re pushing right as you say we Don’t have bare dirt right here Right so so we’d have to do like a fall Spraying to kill stuff And then do it with your fall spray it Wouldn’t hurt to spike it with a Pre-emergent So that way it kind of holds it so that Way you don’t get anything in the Meantime While you’re waiting to put onto your Spring contact Pre-emergent spray with like a goal That’s that like i said that’s probably One of the most heavily used is galligan And another one out there would be like A sure guard that’s a flumioxazin Product There’s a series of chemicals out there

In dazzleflams i haven’t used them Because we can’t actually get them Through Our company but under the names of like Morengo and Esplanade that people have used Another product that has gold [Music] Active ingredient in it is called clean Tracks That’s actually labeled for conifer Plantations so there’s there’s some out There that you could play with Um and spike the tank and that’s Actually what we recommend is Try and get like a contact with a Pre-emergent on in the fall Because it will do so many favors coming In through the winter Because it’ll hold back a lot and then Hit it again and say march And then hopefully that kind of gets you Through so Yeah kind of a two-step step program but From there it’s experience on what comes Through and then what can i do to kind Of clean that up For some people if it’s u-cut they go Well I just want to keep it mostly clean so That way the trees aren’t under stress Pressure In the growing season just because i Want my trees to do well but if it’s a

Little dirty that’s okay nobody’s here But then they do want it hey i need Something i could spray later in the Spring that will keep these really tall Weeds clean While i have people coming through my Property just so it looks nice because People want to come to a Really clean moat place to come get Their christmas tree And then for more of a commercial side If they’re doing wholesale It’s tough based on seasonality they Could spray in the spring but they don’t Have time to spray when the trees are Actually shut down because they’re Harvesting They’re they’re trying to you know go Nuts on cheering and get everything Tagged and bundled and shipped And cut you know that’s that’s hard Because i’ll say the same thing Otherwise there’s any way you can come In Late october or something you know and Get a free budget down there look at me Are you kidding me i’m so busy Harvesting it’s like yeah You know some people have the cruise Some people don’t some people have it in Their routine some people are just so Busy trying to get it all done that Hey we’ll be happy if we get some stuff On starting in march and we’re not still

Planting You know it’s a good straight for Everybody so But that’s something if you if you’re Worried about crop safety if you already Use glyphosate maybe try spiking it with Some galligan That was one thing i did right into that Program Yeah so let’s say we’ve started putting That down and then we’re planting New trees so galligan is Really safe if they’re in the soil and They have Almost every primordium will have this On the label too they want it to be Established in the soil either a for Amount of time they’ll say it needs to Be X amount of years old needs to be in the Ground for x amount of time And then the least restrictive you’ll Probably see is make sure the soil is Packed around the roots They want it to have a couple of good Rains and they want to make sure that Soil is packed around the roots to kind Of protect them So that way there’s not creases leading That chemical directly to the tree Seedling because The tree seedling’s ability to Metabolize that is what determines If you’re going to have phytotoxicity or

Not because a lot of these chemicals Could work on the non-target species That you’re trying to protect It’s that species ability to metabolize And kick that herbicide off without Having any harm that makes that chemical Work on the weeds and not the tree So that’s why we don’t want to spray in Hot weather and that’s why we don’t want To spray When they’ve just been planted on all These things because It’s not that that tree is immune it’s Just that that tree is ability to Just digest and boom you’re out of here It didn’t bother it until you don’t Notice any phytotax Toxicity effects so okay so but we’re Going to be planting 2 2500 trees this year mixed in amongst The mature trees so how do we handle That Uh mixed in amongst the mature so What you would want to be careful is not Spraying Necessarily spraying the pre-emergent Depends on the label before you plant And if you do you have to be really Careful to make sure you don’t get that Top soil In near the roots so if you’re shoveling And you’re pulling this to the side and You’re putting that seedling in You want to make sure you’re not getting

That herbicide soil directing contact Thirds That’s what a lot of the labels will say Um The best thing you can do is give it Some time To pack in around that seedling you know Form kind of a good solid Soil base around it before coming in and Spraying Um very label dependent on whether you Use like a clean Oxygen or an oxy fluorophant it’s going To depend on the active ingredient for Sure Yeah but there’s stuff out there if you Think that you’re going to come In and say you want to just get ahead of It spray in the fall Some of them will just give you a Timeline you could spray this six months Before planning oh great just playing October we’re planting april we’re good Um that can help a lot so depending on What chemistry you decide to go to Sometimes that fall spray can be really Nice because then by the time you come In and plant You might be past the time in which that Chemical is going to do any damage if You plant it to it Yeah so that can be helpful too Okay inner plane is tough when it comes To doing a herbicide regimen

That can be one that’s you know with That’s just being you cut now because We have so we’ve got an eight foot tree We’ve got a seedling we’ve got an Eight-foot tree we’ve got a seedling and It’s just Yeah yeah yeah so it’s not like oh i’m Not worried you know a little bit of Spray on the bottom of the eight foot Tree Right whatever no worries it’s getting Sheared off or whatever It’s gonna need to handle still anyway We’ll trim those off yeah totally Whereas the seedlings they’re just not Prepared they don’t have that soil They don’t have that root system the Soil is unsettled around them they’re They’re young they’re coming from the Nursery they’re shocked they just got Transplanted so there’s like so much More going against them So they need the protection from the Weeds but then achieving that for them Can be challenging yeah it’s like man These guys they don’t have a good root System i can’t have weeds sucking up all The water and Sunshine they need everything they can Get fertilizer But then at the same time trying to Achieve that yeah i gotta be careful Around those though because they’re so They can be stressed out so it’s kind of

Yeah 20 20 there a little bit For sure excellent but yeah i mean just Based off what i see Um i can send those labels over to you And kind of give you some of the Precautions that You’d want to look at um Good questions on like when i can plant Stuff because that would impact on Some things i would think so far based On what you said maybe a fall spray Would be The best alternative and sometimes with Those chemistries you can change the Rate A little bit say you could do A heavier spray in the fall and then if The label allows you to come in say x Amount of months later and then plant And if that meets your Planting date then coming in Under the right restrictions and Spraying a lighter amount that same Pretty much Just kind of push it through um without Doing any seedling damage that might be An option kind of just changing your Regimen on how much you spray and when So that way you’re kind of eliminating Any potential Crop toxicity problems so That can be helpful some of them that’s It’s tough you know you go with a Chemical

Said it’s stronger it’s better it’s Tougher They’ll say don’t plant anything in here For a year Well that’s not going to work you know So you thought it’s like i know we’re Spinning wheels again so Yeah there’s stuff out there though and Um i’d shoot that program out to you As far as fungicides if you guys had any Problems with any Fungal issues or anything pretty good There nothing that We’re overly concerned about okay gotcha I’ll put just a basic fungicide on there So if anything ever Spurs you needing to start putting Anything on preventatively say you see Something in the corner of the property Or see something on the neighbors down The road and you’re like i want to put Something on because fungicides Most of them best used as protectors Than after So if that’s something that starts to Become an issue or you’re concerned About It’s something you definitely get on and Just start putting into your routine so Nothing appears If you don’t have a need for it right Now um Grower preference we always recommend Doing something but

Again grow our preference if you’ve Never had any problems Great hopefully it just stays that way Yeah You know and if it doesn’t we have Products that you can put on to help Protect the trees And that’s the thing too with climate You just never know what might be coming Down the road Never had any issues we keep getting Drowny weather suddenly that tree is a Little stressed it turns out there was Some sort of inoculum out there and it Just finally got the right conditions on Just enough of a stress tree that It might travel what about insects any Insect problems mites adelgids Well we had a huge aphid profit earlier This year we Called you about that and we we got Aggressive on that Um i used to spray every year for mites But i You know just to kind of a blanket but Uh lately we’ve been Leaving that alone and You know again we try to be on the less Chemical side so the more chemicals Not that we’re completely against Obviously because we’re putting some on But right As long as we’re getting a decent Percentage of trees you know

Actually once we get our trees past two Years of age Where they’re burning up in the summer You know we get a really high percentage To sell Yeah and the way we’re going you know Our biggest problem is That first two years of the nobles just Getting going Yeah and then after that you know even If there’s weeds growing around them you Know that bigger trees Have larger roots and they get more Nutrients they get more water You know and so what if there’s weeds or We just hack them down before you know And that’s a sentiment that’s pretty Loud amongst most of the visitors i see Is just getting those trees like i said About two years And after that they usually do pretty Well but getting them started is Definitely the biggest It seems like hurdle right at the Beginning and then after that Okay keep like say keep everything at Bay let’s do some mowing some basic Spraying they do pretty well You could shear off any damage or prune Out you know a flagging limb That way that tree looks nice and it’s Marketable um Yeah as long as nothing comes about like A um

You know like a bad mite outbreak or Something that causes it to just look Ugly You know you’ve seen them if you’ve had Them and sprayed for them it’s kind of We were doing great i got one bad my Might outbreak and now i can’t market You know There’s 30 in this corner there’s toast Or they’re just yellow i can’t share That out you know those issues are kind Of frustrating to deal with for sure but Yeah just getting them started and going I hear that one a lot So nordman’s are becoming a lot more Popular around here and we We love them yep i’ve heard that a lot Too Uh you know i love them in my house So if you look at the heat damage hardly Any on the nordman’s Aphids don’t touch them at least they Don’t seem to The i mean there they might be a little Bit harder this year but You know so what are you seeing out There with other I’m hearing that a lot a lot of people Are planting ornaments and they like it Um i would say You know i hear different things about Percentages and what direction people Are going Some people have been the industry a

Long time they said oh yeah back in the 90s i think they said Everyone tells they’ll start planting Noble right and then everybody blade and Nose is like oh i got too many of those I’m not gonna i don’t know enough about The industry to say that everybody’s Planting nobles and that we should be Concerned i wouldn’t think so But i have heard a lot of people saying That Yeah the customers like them and they’re Way easier to grow Than the frasers and the nobles and They’ve done well and they They i wouldn’t say they’re easier than The nobles the nobles i think can shear Easier getting if you have to cut a top On an oardman And then have to train up a new one that That is is it tough That is that is tough yeah um i’ve heard Of some guys Cutting pvc pipe and clamping on there And then The new bud growing up into the pipe and Then shooting up We haven’t tried that yet so tough Because it doesn’t want to It it doesn’t want to grow straight so Like turn and curve You lack of apical control is what they Call that that’s interesting Yeah that is the one challenge with an

Ordinance but i mean When you get a nordman that wants to Keep it shape and grow up I mean or doesn’t want to fight the Shape They’re amazing and they hold up well For the customer Keeps its needles for a long time yeah Right that’s cool We had a small section i started Recommending my friends and they kept Going out now it’s just completely wiped Out and we’re Starting over but uh yeah i have a lot Of Friends that swear they won’t do Anything else other than an ornament i’m Like well i’m going to be out for a few Years here but But you know he kept going up for uh Valentine’s day i put it back Up yeah it just the needles they just Won’t drop its needles and it’s it’s Amazing That’s kind of cool the uh coming from The nursery world i didn’t get a chance To grow any but talking to people They said that they were hard to get to Grow like when they’re very young Yep um they’re very daylight sensitive And heat sensitive They’re just oh no we didn’t have that Problem just getting they just Stay small yes for the longest time

And then once they decide to start Growing then they take them out and they Go but it takes Immediately coming from the nursery World how do your enormous student they Grow yeah they’re fine They’re fine so i’ve taken a lot of These once they’re going out the door Says two-year-olds or something They’re getting kind of past that they Put oh they’re still the first year and They take off i’m like but from the Nursery world it’s like year one You know and you’re like yeah you’re too And you’re gonna like are we gonna have Something we can sell and Yeah they do take off eventually but Very hard to get those guys to go Yeah and even even in the ground after You know a year or two They’re just they’re throwing buds and They’re Thickening up but they aren’t going they Just Aren’t that leggy especially when you Compare it to something like a doug fur You know it’s just completely another World exactly yeah a huge leader growing All over the place Yeah yeah you could probably Harvest two dugs in a spot same time you Could do a A nordman yeah but that’s kind of neat That customer

Customers like that good needle Retention all that yeah That’s good color they look similar to a Noble And look so yes yeah um heavier lip Branches so they can hang their Ornaments The heavier ornaments these days yeah See that’s something i wouldn’t have Thought of either oh yeah that’s a good Point oh yeah Yeah those branches are stuck glass Ornaments or something that you want Yeah that’s a good point with a little Bit of room so like a noble a little bit Of room to do that and they can hold on To those Now as a consumer if i’m going to go buy A normal fur is it going to be a little More expensive than a noble It’s funny you say that we tried to Market ours A little bit more expensive and our Customers couldn’t tell the difference I mean i can and barry can walking into The field and say that’s a noble and Norman they didn’t know where the line Stopped From nobles and nordman’s and we weren’t Charging that much more So we just priced nobles and nordman’s The same so they If they didn’t know if we didn’t mark Every row

Like nobles end here in norman’s here Then they could just Pick a tree it’s the same price i got You i gotcha because to them it’s kind Of same same so just keep it consistent I see That makes sense yeah i wonder what Things that you talk about like well They’re stouter You know they keep their needles longer It’s kind of like okay can we charge Five ten dollars more for that then you Know that’s my thought just on the Marketing side Yeah no i i think i think we likely Could and if we started to transition Over to more normans we would Yeah and if they gained like i said They’re gaining in popularity um And you know if they if they take Longer to grow see that’s what i’m Thinking can you get a little bit more Money for that because it’s it’s taking A spot longer in the ground It’s getting that many more applications And that much more weight control and That much more trimming to make it Then i would think that you know beckons A higher price But yeah we tried and we just confused Too many customers Yeah yeah they’re newer to people so i Guess that’s one of those things as it Takes hold the market more people start

Buying them and like them then they’ll Understand Oh yeah i want that so 10 more whatever Great That’s what i’m looking for i want the North bend my husband about to know Before he won’t buy any other tree other Than a noble that’s what people say Okay you know whatever you want my boys Cannot believe that i They were sure that i would never do Anything other than A noble yeah and now they’re we have a Nordman in our house every year yep See yeah people could change for sure They just just got one more Plus and that is it they held up to the Heat yeah it’s like are you kidding me Yeah see it’s one more thing it did and I’ve heard some people’s Um but here’s the thing they were Seedlings so that’s kind of all bets off They’re Um no the ceilings are seedlings toasted Okay see The ones that we just did so that’s Where the real test is because you said It doesn’t have an established root System then it’s kind of like hey i’m Not going to judge one species off Another No unless we could take you out there And show some Show you our seven foot nordmans and our

Seven foot nobles and our nordmans are Way better shaped from the heat than our Nobles were they’re just tough then they Are tough yeah well and A lot of people have been happy with Them because you know they’ll have the Frasers And then the normans the frasers are Getting hammered with the delgins and Mites oh my god people love them but i’m Just struggling with these and they’re Like and then i come over here and My duck first i shear them and they grow Like crazy and my norms their hearties Crap you know they’re just great you Know they’re going this is let’s get I’m going to grow these two you know i’m Going ducks and orbits now you know Yeah yeah but you got to have nobles Because it’s bread and butter So that’s what everybody wants people Like my husband won’t take anything but A novel okay Whatever i treat the tree to me today we Had a this year we had a doug fur Because we brought property So we bought 24 acres of forestry so we Had a duck fur that was in the way of The drive tray That was our christmas tree there was Trees had to be removed and they’re you Know about Yeah very little smaller than that one Somebody’s small it was a charlie brown

Tree It wasn’t beautiful but we’re like ah it Was it was our quarter million dollar Tree or whatever We called it i think that’s great yeah It’s like we paid enough for the Property that That tree’s going in the house and it’s Not free you know that’s I can’t see it go to waste we might do The same thing this year we might just Take one that maybe Has had some canker issues or something Yeah i know some of my problem children Out there Might just be one of those we have Our doug first rob i was just going Through them we have a problem with the Duck birds What’s going on they’re just there’s Something going on A lot of needles are gone inside yeah You’ll have to Say is it yellowing on the inside yeah See that’s the internal internal needle Casting That and that’s where the trees were Final spring they were beautiful And then here comes this heat wave Within two weeks just like that i mean It was definitely the key i know that You can actually see They’re not even here Yeah so i don’t know if that was a

Previous Yeah we almost want to just get rid of Them but there’s a few people that Ask for them so yeah Yeah and that’s that’s the bulk of them They’re not they’re just not full like They should be So i’m just looking for cankers or Anything you know something that may Have caused like a lack of Um nutrition you know circulating Through Or i look to see if it’s girled in any Way see stuff like this doesn’t concern Me Is it something maybe but that wouldn’t Cause You know it’s not girdling the tree or Anything i don’t think that would cause Me That’s probably just genetic or Something a little bit of stress But it can handle it yeah it’s an Interactive Needle loss for sure yeah um So this is this is one of those tough Things when you look at needles Usually the underside is where you’d Find like any sort of fungus or anything There are black dots on here that can Mean a lot though Because usually it’s secondary So i see that it’s needle you know Needles yellow so these are going to be

Some of the ones that fall off and go Okay so there’s Some black fungus on here that’s Probably just Living on a you know a needle that’s Dying it’s just it found a host That’s probably not what caused this um It’s just a secondary Illness But yeah so unfortunately if it is Interior needle loss There isn’t a fungicide you can spray to Protect against that Um oh you got ants all over this tree Too Yeah i noticed that down on the trunk They were climbing mm-hmm you were down There i was just looking there I didn’t notice that i mean i haven’t Noticed that when i was doing them Today but that doesn’t mean i wasn’t i Wasn’t looking So um yeah it could be a couple things If it’s true interior needle cast There isn’t technically any labeled Fungicides for that um Like a chlorothalanol like a bravo could Help at least protect What’s there Said heim’s interior needle cast that’s Where sometimes those early Spring late winter applications of Calcium like a metallic can help Needle retention if there’s

Ants and a lot of them then That could be a sign of conifer rude Aphid Uh because they they tend to the aphids So Ants is always something maybe worth Digging up a seedling and seeing if You’ve got any aphids on the roots oh Really Yeah ants it’s that symbiotic it’s that Classic biology symbiotic relationship The ants and the aphid Um the seeds the ants move the aphids Around That’s a red that’s that red-headed ant And then we actually have an anthill Yeah that’s kind of where i was looking Where we have an ant hill in this Section of the farm but Then that wouldn’t concern me so much But If you see them going down around the Base of the tree or on the root line That area that it’s just something i Bring up because So the ants are feeding on the aphids Oh okay yeah cause honeydew if it Secrete honeydew they feed on the roots They secrete honeydew the ants eat the Honeydew And what the ants get at that with the Aphids get out of it is the ants move They if it’s around It’s it’s it’s classic you know biology

Symbiosis because It’s totally mutualistic um The ants will then move their their Their Farm livestock around to a new set of Roots because They understand that this thing’s Producing food for me and it’s sweet It’s like nectar So once they’re kind of petering out or The tree’s dead or whatever They will move those aphids around so That way they find more feeds that way They can keep eating so it’s It’s interesting yeah yeah Um you’ll see it on like A deciduous type crop tree like trees That’s fruits whatever You’ll see a black city mold you’ll see In the greenhouse so the aphids release That honeydew and sticky and then that City mold will live on the honeydew That’s not really symbiotic that’s just Beneficial for for the Honey the the city mold living on that Sticky substance there’s no insect That’s been doing anything for the aphid In that scenario but But yeah if you see ants something to Consider is They could be um they could be Helping out those aphids that are down There um They could be working together a little

Bit or they could just be ants Like you find spiders and hornets and Everything else in your tree because It’s a tree uh they could just be living Down there But the ants themselves i don’t think Cause any issues Um it’s just a sign of them Helping something you can’t see that’s Right so like they might be Investigating someone nearby if you see Something else i don’t think rude aphids Directly connected to the fact that You’re losing interior needles though I would think maybe yellowing vigor Issues The interior needle casts the ants Probably not related But could be a sign of something else to Come so yeah okay Yeah well the old tour is supposed to be Systemic isn’t it that we fray and Spray so it should be taking care of our Root ace so if you’re spraying the ultor And it is going to work systemically Down into the roots um Unless you’ve been spraying altar for 10 Years in a row Two times a season we’ve pretty much Stayed with altor for Quite a while now because then you could Start working up resistance Yeah you were we were discussing that Earlier this spring i know you’re

Talking a lot of people but Yeah we might want to switch to Something else I’ll have to look and see what’s labeled For christmas trees that would work Systemically Um because i have some contact and some Like trans laminar type sprays for Aphids Where you can spray on the tree and it Either needs to contact the insect Or it will only work kind of in the General area that you sprayed it on and Then the insect needs to come feed here Well obviously we have no way to spray The roots so i have to type Let’s look into that see what kind of Program you can mix things right now i Have on your program ultor but if you’ve Been using that for a while to see what Else we can maybe work In that would work systemically to work On those routines Right yeah something else is an option For sure Yeah as far as this is it looks like an Interior needle clasp Doesn’t look exactly what i just saw From the heat that i had on mine Could be aided by the heat but this Looks like it’s been going on for a Little while it has Our dog yeah the doug’s it’s been yeah You can do look look

Look you can just see because i mean we Can see these two over here that are Actually They’re not even old trees you know you Got a lot of needles underneath Yeah and you can just see them there Yeah so i Yeah they had you know Eight inches or ten inches of new growth That i did And once you got through the new growth We’re down to that That’s i didn’t have an option well and I don’t think it’s Necessarily weather related um no i Didn’t think that on uh Cold weather related because then you Would see the outside just Actually look it’ll look quite similar To these uh Trees that got too much heat too much Sunshine oh yeah yeah frost frost damage Will look really similar to that Actually so if you come out of winter And you get some stuff that doesn’t Break bud Or um some some dying tips you know Needles like this that that could be a Frost damage issue interesting It looks very similar and that’s also How sometimes the herbicide will look If you had an herbicide gas off Herbicide gassing off Frost damage and heat damage you’re

Going to look very similar you’re going To see A lot of that new growth croaking over Brown a lot of exterior needle damage Those all look very similar so that Could be tough when you come out the Grower says you know some of these trees Over here where you see some of that new Needle what’s going on here it’s It could be the heat it could be the Spray you just put on three weeks ago And it could be Frosted did it that’s when you start the Investigation how long has it looked Like this and all that you need to kind Of determine it but This entire interior needle cast Could be drought environmental that Caused that issue Give it just enough stress that That interior noodle cast is working Within that train it’s casting off those Needles Some people say like one to two years After drought you could have symptoms Like that And some of the things you could Potentially trial and do is maybe like The antioxidant or foliar program that Helps strengthen that The needles on the trees to help prevent Some of that unfortunately as you know Once they’re cast We can’t bring them back so that kind of

No that’s yeah yeah And kind of keeping it a couple more Years to see if you can kind of fill it Out that’s what i’m thinking yeah Absolutely Even get it to stop see that’s the thing You know you had it happen once You can’t keep doing that every year Otherwise you just never catch up yeah Really big truth just a little bit Growth on the outside it’s goofy Eventually just get rid of it But trying to get that at bay getting it To stop so that we can get enough growth On that side to have a marketable tree Yeah yeah nutritional maybe an Antioxidant and then consider maybe a Fungicide application to try and put That at bay How many acres do you guys have here Well We’re now we’re up to about seven acres Of trees Most things that i recommend are by the Acre so i think at the worst with some Of these products You know you’d be two and a half gallon Of something you know three gallons And you can even be selective you know That tree there oh Beautiful yeah you know but there’s a Problem there so You know two half gallon a product to Try something to see if you could put it

At bay If it pencils out for you based on what You tell the tree for it you know might Be worth Trialing um it’s just try to trial the Right thing because It has to pencil yeah that’s the pencil Out you know if i need to apply x ounces Of this and it was This much money you know it’s basic math It’s just yeah if it doesn’t Figure out sometimes you know crossing Your fingers and saying well we’ll see If it’s past it now Or you caught charge more for the tree Right yeah it’s you know it has to pay For itself otherwise why do it So yeah well when you mentioned [Applause] So once again thanks for joining me on The flanigan homestead where christmas Trees are my business Teaching including horticulture is my Job an outdoor projects are my passion If you would like Subscribe share that’d be great and Comments From other christmas tree farmers are Always appreciated i love Looking at them hope to see you again Soon

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